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65 Posts

08-14-2021

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Re:Google PLay Update system

2021-09-09, 21:47 PM

To Hykova,

My thoughts about storage problems are based on many failed attempts to "fix" Windows by restoring from backup media and eventually having to do a clean install on a formatted drive to solve the problems...

 

With regard to the Play system updates - how are they distributed? Is every update broadcast OTA, for many months? Or does the phone contact the Google Servers and choose which updates are needed? Both seem unlikely. I think that each monthly update contains all the previous fixes (for a fixed period) and is supplemented by smaller updates, as necessary. 

 

Why do I think the updates install correctly, when your workaround is used? Well, without using your workaround, the phone states the update is installed and then it gets rolled back. If we accept that it is rolled back because it is faulty, then several consecutive updates would all have to be faulty and that seems unlikely, plus, many other phones are being updated without problem. If the update installation process is faulty, then your workaround would fail too. Your workaround must prevent whatever "bug" is in the software from completing. Plus, we have seen rollbacks to January, then June updates - so at some point the update must have installed? Plus, the phone appears to work normally - which it wouldn't if the update installed incorrectly? Agreed, this is all speculation, but it seems incredible to believe otherwise.

 

When you factory reset the most recent times, what Play system month first appears? January or June?

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84 Posts

08-21-2021

Germany

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Re:Google PLay Update system

2021-09-09, 22:05 PM

To Steve,

Well, Backups on Windows are sometimes not really good, I understand why you compare it, but Windows, weeeeell ... Its a different story. A more troubling story. :D 

 

The Play System updates were added to distribute general fixes, which are applying to all android versions, no matter which brand or type of phone it is. The idea behind that was to implement safety updates faster. I would say: The Play System Security Updates are general fixes to the android system, while Motorola updates contains device-specific updates. Play Store --> General fixes | Motorola - Specific fixes (and new stuff)

 

For me, its incredible to believe that everything actually works as intended. My workaround simply seems to stop a rollback process. And thats the point: Its just stopping a safety action from the system. Since we dont actually know how it works, this is the reason why I have doubt everything is okay. We dont can tell what exactly our workaround does. And thats the point for me to question, if everything is okay. If it would be other app updates or aspects of the phone, I wouldn't care, but since its a very important security-related problem, I'm more on the "Better safe then sorry"-line, therefore I question that the workaround actually helped installing the update, rather thinking it just stopped a critical system process. I mean, it only works if both conditions here are met: Apps are deactivated//multiple main restarts. I would agree, if deactivating apps would the only thing that is needed to be done. But with the manual restarts are we actively stopping something, and we cant tell what. Therefore, I'm on "better safe on sorry".

 

It rolls back to January - Its the exact the version date the phone had pre-implemented when bought. In some cases, it rolled back to June, but in 90% of the cases, its January. 

 

You know what? Thats all not our problem at all. :/ If Motorola would be here more helpful, we wouldnt have do discuss all the stuff. Why dont tell the community whats going on? At least there was no post in the last time containing the word "reescalating" - That word appeared way too often with no new infos given.

 

-- -- -- -- --

 

EDIT: My argument is mainly: We cant tell what exactly is going on, therefore, we cant exactly know if everything is working properly when using the workaround. If it wouldn't be a safety issue, I would don't care. But it is a safety issue. So I'm extra careful. And until Motorola fix the problem or at least give us an update with any useful information, we're somewhat lost.

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84 Posts

08-21-2021

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Re:Google PLay Update system

2021-09-09, 22:16 PM

A small addition to think about: We observed completely different patch behaviors over the last months and over the last Play Store verions.

 

Version One: Download progress bar completely crazy, jumping around between 8-14%, forth and back | Installation: Seems rather normal, reboot necessary.

Version Two: Download progress bar only filling to 7% or 8% | Installation: Seems rather normal, reboot necessary.

Version Three (Current): Download progress bar acting very normal | Installation: Way too quick, no reboot necessary.

 

 

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65 Posts

08-14-2021

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Re:Google PLay Update system

2021-09-09, 23:02 PM

Hykova,

I have read that Play system updates are not always about security fixes - they can be for general phone operation enhancements, fixes, and how modules interact.

 

You make a VERY good point - the Play system updates are not specific to the G50; they are the same for all Android phones that run recent "flavours". Therefore, it is unlikely that the update itself is faulty - it is the Motorola software / hardware that is faulty (or not supported in the case of hardware). Though that doesn't explain why Motorola Tom doesn't get the rollback (or does he? :-) ).

 

The G50 is new and the processor is very recent, so maybe the Play system updates don't play well with the hardware!

 

The Motorola updates address security issues with the Android kernel, so we can take some comfort from that (more if these were rolled out sooner). If you are that worried, then you wouldn't use the phone at all... I am not too concerned as i use the phone for basic functions and have disabled apps that i think are "risky".

 

I can't believe the June and August Play system updates were both "faulty".  What would they do to make the Motorola software think they were?  Remember, that Google has made it mandatory for manufacturers to implement the Play system modules and update process. I think the Motorola software has a fundamental problem with these updates and your workaround just stops it doing some "Crazy S!@t"... :-)

 

 

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84 Posts

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Re:Google PLay Update system

2021-09-09, 23:19 PM

To Steve,

 

I should have made one point more clear - I dont necessary believe the update itself are faulty, but in conjunction with the Motorola System, they get faulty. Because they dont work together because of some reason. It still can make the update faulty because of that, regarding maybe something that is not installed correctly, but since both update systems are already somewhat fighting against each other, a workaround stops the fight - but not the war. Or something like that. Err. Yeah, not the best example. Basically, it gets faulty because Motorola is in the way, causing a chain reaction. We can stop that, but it doesnt mean its okay then.

 

I'm worried, but I know the stuff I use, therefore I have some comfort even with that bug that nothing bad will happen for me. Also, every other aspect of the phone is awesome - And this problem is fixable, as it only seems to occur to a certain channel. 

 

The processor is indeed very new, could be a problem yeah. But why is it still related to apps? I mean, if we are still on the same page here, deactivating some apps helps to install the update. I still dont quite understand how this could mess things up. 

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84 Posts

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Re:Google PLay Update system

2021-09-09, 23:22 PM

Another point that is confusing me: Are we the only people having the problem? Always the same people posting here.

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65 Posts

08-14-2021

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Re:Google PLay Update system

2021-09-09, 23:41 PM

@ Hykova wrote:

A small addition to think about: We observed completely different patch behaviors over the last months and over the last Play Store verions.

 

Version One: Download progress bar completely crazy, jumping around between 8-14%, forth and back | Installation: Seems rather normal, reboot necessary.

Version Two: Download progress bar only filling to 7% or 8% | Installation: Seems rather normal, reboot necessary.

Version Three (Current): Download progress bar acting very normal | Installation: Way too quick, no reboot necessary.

 

 

 

Another good observation. Think about it though - why are most other phones (brands / models) not suffering the same problem (or Tom's phone!) - we have agreed that all recent phones get the same updates! I started to think that it was poor mobile signals / download speed issues but not all of us would have that problem, so many times!

 

Hardware fault? Intermittent? Possible. Download not being stored properly (read / write issues)? Doesn't seem likely when the Motorola updates are not having this problem... Also, why are we here experiencing the problem time after time...

 

Memory / storage problem? Unlikely but could be a memory buffer issue (but that would affect all other downloads...).

 

I have watched the download progress via the notification bar - the updates can contain a number of elements, which could explain the uneven progress. Update includes fixes for modules already fixed by Motorola patches and that makes a difference? Dunno...

 

Wish there was a way of downloading the updates to a laptop / tablet and then updating using a cable or bluetooth. Think this may be why Motorola Tom is not having an issue...

 

Software / hardware conflict? Highly likely. Remember Sony!

 

A combination of several factors? Very likely!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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84 Posts

08-21-2021

Germany

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Re:Google PLay Update system

2021-09-09, 23:46 PM

To Steve

We can only guess, but we came to that conclusion serveral times. Argh! Puzzles! You put up some nice theories, though. But with all that theories and possible sources of the problem, and the rather small amount of user posting here, I can understand why its not top priority for Motorola. Maybe they just gave up?

 

 

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65 Posts

08-14-2021

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Re:Google PLay Update system

2021-09-10, 0:00 AM

The Apps have many links / permissions and use the same modules that are affected by the Play system updates. Disabling them may reduce the number of interactions generated by the system and this allows your workaround to succeed? Have thought about disabling permissions instead of the app itself but it is not so simple.

 

Yes,  I believe the Motorola software fights the updates and causes a fault situation. the workaround clears the fault flag?

 

No, it is not okay. Motorola should take this seriously.

 

I believe there are many G50 owners suffering the same issue but either they don't notice or they are following this thread but don't want to post.

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245 Posts

02-10-2017

Portugal

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Re:Google PLay Update system

2021-09-13, 8:15 AM
So far so good. Phone haas been rebooted like 3 times and so far, Booth google play and Google play secutiry is up to date. Many apps are disabled (like many use to) but i´m using Gmail, Google Maps, YouTube, Google Calendar.
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