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PaoloO
Paper Tape
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎09-10-2019
Location: BR
Views: 238
Message 1 of 25

4K on all cameras and RAW DNG support

I've just played a bit with the one zoom on Motorola's store, but it was quite deceiving.

 

1st:

 

4K capture is restricted to the regular camera. 

 

2nd:

 

There's no RAW (DNG) support for any of the cameras.

 

I tried to install Open Camera and Cinema4k apps to see if these issues could be addressed by the use of 3rd party apps but I was unable to install them as the device was on retail mode.

 

The absence of 4K for the telephoto camera and the lack of support for RAW capture on all cameras are a deal breaker for me.

 

Can anyone confirm the compatibility of all 3 cameras with 3rd party apps?

plur1
Paper Tape
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎09-12-2019
Location: PL
Views: 167
Message 2 of 25

Re: 4K on all cameras and RAW DNG support

Hi,

 

Can you tell me - it is possible to record with camera on back 4K 30fps video?

 

On Motorola specs it said only FullHD - it is nonsense if true....

 

Thank you Smiley Happy 

dgcom
Punch Card
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎12-16-2008
Location: US
Views: 127
Message 3 of 25

Re: 4K on all cameras and RAW DNG support


@PaoloO wrote:

 

There's no RAW (DNG) support for any of the cameras.

 

.......

 

Can anyone confirm the compatibility of all 3 cameras with 3rd party apps?


I got the phone yesterday (in US).

Not sure if you can base these conclusions on the device in the retail mode...

There is RAW support - included camera app can write jpeg, dng & jpeg or just dng.

And I was able to install OpenCamera and Android camera 6.2.030 (sideloaded, found on reddit).

3rd party cameras work well, but there is no way to select wide angle or tele camera - only standard camera is used.

 

Video - I haven't tried, but rear camera shows support for 4K UHD, 4K UHD 19:9 and FHD 60fps, selfi is FHD only it seems.

And again ultrawide and tele cameras support regular FHD and lower.

 

I beleive that camera support is very decent for this type of phone.

 

--
DJ
NJ
PaoloO
Paper Tape
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎09-10-2019
Location: BR
Views: 116
Message 4 of 25

Re: 4K on all cameras and RAW DNG support

Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately, this confirm that this phone is just a missed opportunity and no, the camera support isn't decent if you can use ONLY one camera in 3rd party apps.

What's the point fitting a phone with a fantastic (on paper) telephoto camera with OIS and all if they cripple it to just Full HD recording and also block it's use in any other app?

This is quite deceiving, and Motorola had just lost a customer.

I presume RAW support is just for the regular rear camera as well, am I correct?

dgcom
Punch Card
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎12-16-2008
Location: US
Views: 100
Message 5 of 25

Re: 4K on all cameras and RAW DNG support

You make very strange conclusions.

 

It is not Motorola's job to support 3rd-party camera apps, it is other way around - 3rd-party apps need to support additional cameras.

Do you have another example of Android phone where 3rd-party apps work with more than one rear camera?

Of course, it is possible that Motorola does not expose additional cameras to Android API, but unless we know this for sure - I won't blame Motorola for this yet.

 

 

Video recording - apologies, but how would you record 2160x3840 (4K) video on the camera which only provides 2448x3264 resolution?

That telephoto camera is just too low resolution for this.

Agree that 4K video could be done on the wide angle camera, not sure why this was not done... But I don't care about video that much Smiley Happy

 

 

And the last, but not least - Motorola's camera application supports RAW for all 4 cameras - including front-facing one.

 

 

I also like that it supports manual exposure and shows live histogram - this is relatively rare to have in standard camera apps.

--
DJ
NJ
hrv
Paper Tape
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎09-13-2019
Location: PT
Views: 89
Message 6 of 25

Re: 4K on all cameras and RAW DNG support

Can you confirm what is the resolution and file size of the DNG files on the stock cam and gcam?

Thanks !

dgcom
Punch Card
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎12-16-2008
Location: US
Views: 88
Message 7 of 25

Re: 4K on all cameras and RAW DNG support

I looked at this a bit more.

OpenCamera docs and forums provide some insights.

 

http://opencamera.org.uk/help.html#faq

Why doesn't Open Camera support dual / multiple cameras? - Open Camera supports switching between all cameras that are made available to third party applications. Usually this means front and back cameras, but some devices have dual back-facing cameras - in some cases the extra camera isn't made available to third party applications, so it isn't possible for Open Camera to support them. Even where they are, since there is no current standard on what the extra cameras are used for, it can't do anything with them other than allowing you to switch between them.

 

And looking at the discussions on their SourceForge forum, it looks like most phones do not expose extra cameras in the API, so there is nothing new Motorola did Smiley Happy

 

I was also looking at the test pictures I made yesterday and Exif info - I think some of it is inaccurate (ex. 35mm equivalent reported for telephoto is 43mm, but it should be longer if Motorola claims 3X on standard 26mm). Also Exif in DNG files is either missing or corrupted from Motorola and OpenCamera, but present in Google camera files...

 

Hope, things will improve with updates Smiley Happy

 

--
DJ
NJ
PaoloO
Paper Tape
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎09-10-2019
Location: BR
Views: 84
Message 8 of 25

Re: 4K on all cameras and RAW DNG support

Yeah, I make strange conclusions.

You said that the support was 'decent'.

Reality: there's no support for 3 of the 4 back cameras outside the built in app.

Yeah, yours is a completely fine conclusion.

Asus, LG and Huawei, at least (these are the brands that I've used so far) ALL make that possible. So yes, there are tons of manufacturers that DO provide 'decent' support for all cameras on their phones.

Regarding 4K, you're right, but there's an industry standard in between Full HD and 4K available, and that's 1440p.

Does this phone have it? Oh, no.

 

Besides that, the Huawei P30 PRO, for instance, also has a 8 Mp zoom camera. Yet, it offers 4K (interpolated) that looks a great deal better than Full HD. 

 

And, as you said, there's no 4K for the wide angle even though there's enough resolution for it.


But you know, perhaps I am strange and there's nothing that Motorola could've done to make this phone a ture camera powerhouse.

dgcom
Punch Card
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎12-16-2008
Location: US
Views: 77
Message 9 of 25

Re: 4K on all cameras and RAW DNG support

There are many levels of support, let's break them roughly - excellent, decent and bad.

I think that phone has decent camera support. If you want more, than this phone is not for you - buy phone which has support you require.

Things can always be improved, and no product is flawless, but dismissing the phone which was releases 6 days ago is not right in my opinion.

 

For me, phone cameras is just a bonus feature. I have much better full frame mirrorless camera and plenty of lens.

It is good to have more than just standard options on the phone, but it will never replace good camera.

If I'd need good video, I'd buy a device, designed specifically for video. Asking midrange phone to support all possible industry standard video formats is overboard.

 

BTW, the quality of all these 3 cameras is average. That is understandable, given sensor size. Applications can improve resulting image, but there are limits. Processing RAW in good software can help, but there are the same limits - if there is no data captured or that data is lover than noise - it is useless.

 

I seriously do not see a use case for 4K video on this kinds of hardware, quality will be so-so anyway Smiley Happy

--
DJ
NJ
PaoloO
Paper Tape
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎09-10-2019
Location: BR
Views: 73
Message 10 of 25

Re: 4K on all cameras and RAW DNG support

I've had a LG V30 with Log recording from factory. 13 stops of Dynamic Range.

Quite impressive phone that matches even prosumer cameras when it comes to video recording. Hifi 24 bits audio recording as well.

Another great feature that goes to waste when there's no third party apps support is the flat color profiles available in apps like Cinema4K and Filmic. Not to mention the 200mbps data rate that those apps achieve as well.

Missing that is just shameful.
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